Peter Robinson：

00:34:34,156 --> 00:34:44,675

A few final questions. The future of Koch Industries, one what about the future of Koch Industries, and one about the future of the country.

最后几个问题。科氏工业集团的未来，第一，科氏工业集团的未来如何，第二，关于国家未来，

00:34:45,045 --> 00:34:47,026

Just two last questions, one final time.

最后两个问题，最后一次提问。

00:34:47,477 --> 00:34:49,130

Let me quote this book Good Profit, thank you.

让我引用这本书《做大利润》，谢谢。

00:34:49,736 --> 00:35:03,325

Good Profit going forward Koch’s vision to double profits on average every six years, double profits on average every six years, that implies a growth rate of about 12%

《做大利润》，科赫预测未来利润将平均每六年翻一番，利润平均每六年增加一倍，这意味着增长率约为12%。

Charles Koch：

00:35:03,724 --> 00:35:04,434

12% yeah

是的12%  

00:35:05,229 --> 00:35:11,074

and see it told, ya that's good, you don't kind of go in there mighty 12%，

看到这，这很好，你不会实现12%的增长率，

Peter Robinson：

00:35:11,428 --> 00:35:18,412

that's more than six times the rate at which the American economy has grown, pretty much year-in-and-year-out since 2008.

那是自2008年以来美国经济的同比增长速度的六倍多。

00:35:18,788 --> 00:35:32,930

You put that in here as a purely aspirational matter, or do you really believe this company which is already worth a hundred billion and employs a hundred thousand people can continue to grow its profits at 12% a year?

你把它视为一个纯粹的白日梦呢，还是你真的相信这家市值已经有一千亿的公司，其十万名员工每年能够把利润提高12%？

Charles Koch：

00:35:33,429 --> 00:35:39,949

Well we can only do that at certain times, and that's not like,

我们只能在某些时候实现这么高的增长率，这是不一样的，

00:35:40,316 --> 00:35:50,996

I'm assuming and pushing our people to have an even sloped up, where we've grown, we've been flat for a while, and then we get a new opportunity, we jump up,

我假设和我们的员工有成长的斜坡，然后保持稳定一段时间，然后我们得到一个新的机会，我们的增长率又提高了，

00:35:51,405 --> 00:36:01,844

and then we're flat for a while, so I didn't mean every six years, but that's why I say on average, I see over 50 years, and

然后再持平，我并不说每一年都会增长6%，我只是说“平均而言”，我发现再过50年，

Peter Robinson：

 but there's still room for growth in your mind oh yeah,

它仍有增长的空间。

Charles Koch：

00:36:02,229 --> 00:36:13,860

But we've got to find new platforms for growth and that's why we bought Molex, and we're, we have a lot of other investments in information technology,

但我们已经找到了新的平台来促进增长，这就是我们为什么要收购Molex公司，我们投资了很多其他的信息技术，

00:36:14,371 --> 00:36:22,011

and our goal is to turn all our products and processes into smart products and processes.

我们的目标是把我们所有的产品和工艺转化为智能化产品和工艺。

00:36:22,516 --> 00:36:36,492

For example, we operate a lot of plants that are dangerous, either because that the some of the raw materials or the intermediates are toxic, or because they're explosive.

例如，我们经营了许多危险的工厂，要么是因为一些原料或中间体有毒，要么是因为它们是爆炸性的。

00:36:36,989 --> 00:36:44,548

So you have what the technology today, somebody with a sniffer detector walks around to see if there are any of these.

现在我们有了技术，用探测器检查是否有危险。

00:36:44,939 --> 00:36:53,946

We're working on a process that will have monitors everywhere and will automatically not only detect it but shut the unit down.

我们正在研究一项工艺，它将在各处监视，不仅能够自动检测，而且能够自动关闭装置。

00:36:54,417 --> 00:37:10,683

I mean that's a smart product and processes, then we George Pacific's working on the bathroom, the public bathroom of the future, which will be cleaner, use lower energy, not run out of anything and so on

我的意思是这是一个智能产品和工艺，我们乔治太平洋公司正在研究卫生间产品，未来的公共卫生间，它将更加干净、使用较低的能量，不会耗尽一切，

00:37:11,286 --> 00:37:27,819

so we're working on that everywhere and so and then we're broadening Molex’s product lines to enable us to better do this, so benefit them and our other companies, once again it's win-win, it's how the different pieces fit together

我们正在各处研究这个，所以我们扩大了公司的产品线，使我们能够做的更好，让大家和其他公司受益，同样，这是双赢的局面，让不同部分组合在一起

00:37:28,314 --> 00:37:38,331

and then we're doing the same thing in biotechnology,

然后我们在生物技术中做了同样的事情，

Peter Robinson：

 I said, I had I had one more question, but I actually have this just occurred to me

我说，我还有一个问题，但我真的遇到了这个问题。

00:37:38,669 --> 00:37:47,510

It's been a long time Charles since you had anything to prove to anybody, and you've just turned 80, it's been half a century of building this company

查尔斯，你已经有很长一段时间不需要向任何人证明什么了，你刚满80岁，这家公司已经存在半个世纪了，

00:37:47,940 --> 00:37:57,306

and yet everybody I talked to in your organization said you know Mr. Koch is still putting in nine hour days,

我和你公司里的每个人都谈过，他们都说，科赫先生现在仍然每天工作九小时，

Charles Koch：

 that's much more than that that's just at the office.

还要多，那仅仅是在办公室的工作时间。

00:37:57,715 --> 00:38:04,283

Come on, no, I go home and work out and have dinner, and then I work some more well

我回家，吃完饭后，再干会儿，

Peter Robinson：

00:38:04,637 --> 00:38:12,371

what are you doing？Look there's a golf course right outside your window, here

是吗？看，你的窗外有一个高尔夫球场，在这里，

Charles Koch：

 and I might play one day a week or one day every other week,

我可能每星期打一次，或者每隔一周打一次，

Peter Robinson：

truly what keeps you at it?

到底是什么让你那样工作的？

Charles Koch：

00:38:12,837 --> 00:38:25,437

It's well, I take what Shakespeare said that “what's one is done, joy soul is in the doing”.

好吧，这正符合莎士比亚所说，“得到即是完结，快乐的精髓在于过程”。

00:38:26,174 --> 00:38:40,283

So I mean it goes with Maslow and the psychologists what they found, what what gives you fulfillment and long-term happiness is accomplishing something,

我的意思是，这符合马斯洛和其他心理学家的发现，完成某件事情的时候能够给你带来满足感和长期幸福，

00:38:40,797 --> 00:38:47,166

and they find that if you accomplish something and then that's it what are you just gonna brag about you did that,

他们发现，当你完成了某件事情，你可能会为你取得的成就自豪，

00:38:47,845 --> 00:38:58,795

it's like somebody got a PhD and that's their high point in their life, they're just gonna set at rest on their laurels, no they will become very unhappy, become bored.

就像有的人取得了博士学位，这是他们生命中的一个顶峰，他们会坐在功劳簿上休息，然后他们就会变得很不开心，觉得无聊。

00:38:59,269 --> 00:39:06,828

What you got to do is keep growing in learning and finding new ways to contribute.

你要做的就是不断地学习和寻找新的方法来做出贡献。

00:39:07,398 --> 00:39:09,099

That's the way you feel good about yourself.

这就是寻找良好自我感觉的途径。

Peter Robinson：

00:39:09,566 --> 00:39:12,883

All right, now my final question-- the future of the country.

好，我现在提最后一个问题——国家的未来。

00:39:13,302 --> 00:39:19,563

I'm quoting now from a column, your column in the Chicago Tribune in which you said I agree with Bernie Sanders.

我引用《芝加哥论坛报》的一篇专栏文章，你在文中表态同意伯尼·桑德斯的观点。

00:39:20,405 --> 00:39:25,123

You agree with his diagnosis that was in no Washington poll, I'm sorry the Washington Post.

你同意他在华盛顿民意调查中的分析，抱歉，是《华盛顿邮报》的分析。

00:39:25,685 --> 00:39:41,371

Yeah, quote, so I'm quoting that column, “it is results not intentions that matter, history has proven that a bigger more controlling, more complex and costlier federal government leaves the disadvantaged less likely to improve their lives” close quote.

是的，引言，我来引用一下，“结果比意向更重要，历史已经证明，一个控制力更强、更复杂和代价更高的联邦政府让弱势群体更没有机会来改善他们的生活”引用结束。

00:39:42,118 --> 00:39:44,483

History of the Soviet Union proves that it was a failure.

苏联的历史证明这是一次失败。

00:39:44,906 --> 00:40:00,291

Right, history of many of our own social programs you yourself noted in that column that since President Johnson declared war on poverty in 1964, we spent 22 trillion on poverty and the poverty rate hasn't budged verily a percentage point.

对，历史上许多国家都有自己的社会计划，你们注意到，自从约翰逊总统1964年宣布对贫穷开战，我们花了22兆美元来消除贫困，但是贫困率却没有任何改变。

00:40:00,703 --> 00:40:09,254

So here is the question, all of that evidence that big government is a problem particularly for the poor,

这里的问题是，所有的证据表明，大政府对穷人来说是一个问题，

00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:31,754

and yet in a recent poll, this is in Iowa during the Iowa caucuses 43% of Democratic Iowa caucus-goers and most of the larger largest percentage among young people call themselves socialists, call themselves socialists despite it all.

但最近的一项民意调查显示，在爱荷华预选中，爱荷华州43%的民主党预选人和大部分年轻人声称自己是社会主义者，不管怎么说吧。

00:40:32,317 --> 00:40:34,569

Are you optimistic about the future of this country?

你对这个国家的未来持乐观态度吗？

Charles Koch：

00:40:35,148 --> 00:40:45,155

Well, we've got to change the narrative and we've got to learn to do a better job of communicating what makes people's lives better,

好的，我们来换一种说法，我们要学会如何更好的沟通，使人们的生活更美好，

00:40:45,530 --> 00:40:51,226

What will give them happy fulfilling lives? And it's as you pointed out, it's not socialism.

什么能够让他们幸福美满的生活？也正如你所指出的，这不是社会主义，

00:40:51,658 --> 00:41:01,793

And now this is what they're getting from almost all the media, at almost all universities and schools that this socialism is good

这是他们从所有的媒体得到的，几乎所有的大学和学校，都认为社会主义很好

00:41:02,434 --> 00:41:12,770

So, but fortunately there's technology there, there's older alternative media, and there are more and more groups that are realizing that this is a dead end,

幸运的是，这里有技术，还有更古老的替代媒体，越来越多的群体意识到这是一个死胡同，

00:41:13,243 --> 00:41:27,412

and so what we're trying to do in our network is reach out and innovate, drive creative destruction in this area, find new and better ways to show people this is a dead end for you,

因此，我们在圈子里所要做的就是伸出创新之手，在这个领域里进行创造性的颠覆，寻找新的更好的方法来向人们展示这是条死胡同，

00:41:27,868 --> 00:41:39,650

the way to live a better life, and have a more moral society is to go away from this system of control and dependency and perpetual property.

要想过上更好的生活，建立一个更道德的社会，就得远离这种控制、依赖和永恒财产的体系。

Peter Robinson：

00:41:40,262 --> 00:41:43,707

Charles Koch, Author of Good Profit thank you

查尔斯·科赫，《做大利润》的作者，谢谢。

Charles Koch：

00:41:44,866 --> 00:41:46,046

Thank you Peter

谢谢你，彼得。

片尾

00:41:47,178 --> 00:41:49,291

From uncommon knowledge and the Hoover Institution I'm Peter Robinson

这里是胡佛机构的《非同寻常的知识》，我是彼得·罗宾逊。