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[参考文献] TTT 第一课 >> Good Profit 柯赫采访 Part II（中英双语文字稿） > 第一节

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If in 1961 you had invested $1000 in this man's company, today you would be sitting on five million.

如果你1961年投资1000美元到这个人的公司，那么你现在就有五百万了。

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Uncommon Knowledge, one of the signal figures in American business history Charles Koch.

《非同寻常的知识》采访了美国商业史上的一位重要人物--查尔斯·科赫。

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Uncommon Knowledge now

这里是《非同寻常的知识》。

Peter Robinson：

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Welcome to Uncommon Knowledge, I'm Peter Robinson.

欢迎大家收看《非同寻常的知识》，我是彼得·罗宾逊。

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Born and raised in Wichita Kansas, Charles Koch studied at MIT, worked for a few years back east,

查尔斯·科赫出生于堪萨斯州威奇塔，在麻省理工学院读过书，在东部工作了几年，

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then returned to Wichita to join his father's business then a medium-sized oil company in 1961.

后来回到威奇塔管理他父亲的公司，1961年那个公司还是一家中型的石油公司。

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In 1966 he became president of the business which he renamed Koch Industries in hornor of his father.

1966年，他成为该公司的总裁，他把公司改名为科氏工业集团，以纪念他的父亲。

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In the half a century since, Koch Industries has grown so dramatically that it now represents the second largest privately held company in the United States.

半个世纪以来，科氏工业集团迅速发展，现已成为美国第二大非上市公司。

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Its products run from oil to polymers, to paper products, to pipelines, to fiber optics.

其产品涵盖石油、聚合物、纸制品、管道、纤维光学产品。

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And it employs almost a hundred thousand people, 60,000 of them here in this country,

它在全球雇佣了近十万名员工，其中有6万人在这个国家，

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worth 21 million dollars in 1961, Koch Industries, of which Mr. Koch remains Chairman and CEO, is now worth 100 billion dollars,

1961年，科氏工业集团的市值为2100万美元，科赫先生一直担任董事长兼首席执行官，现在集团的市值为1000亿美元，

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with his brother David, Charles Koch is active in politics, funding think tanks and campaigns.

查尔斯·科赫与他的兄弟戴维·科赫一起积极资助政治、智囊团和活动。

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Mr. Koch is also the author of a number of books including most recently Good Profit.

科赫先生还著有几本书，其中包括最近出版的《做大利润》。

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Charles Koch, welcome

欢迎查尔斯·科赫

Charles Koch：

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Well, thanks for having me on your program.

谢谢你邀请我参加你们的节目。

Peter Robinson：

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In 1961 the company's worth 21 million, half a century later, it's worth 100 billion.

1961年这家公司市值2100万，半个世纪后，市值1000亿。

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Let me quote Good Profit,

我来引用《做大利润》这本书的语句，

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1962, this is your second year at the company, was the year I began working to expand Rock Island's largest business,

1962年，这是你回到公司的第二年，我开始拓展罗克艾兰公司的主营业务，

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Rock Island was then the name of the company, to expand the largest business-- crude oil gathering.

罗克艾兰是当时公司的名称，我要拓展公司最大的业务--原油集输。

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We aggressively, that word is important, I think,

我们积极地，我觉得积极地这个词很重要，

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we aggressively bought crude oil trucks, trucking companies and pipelines,

我们积极地购买原油卡车、卡车运输公司和管道，

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and we built pipelines where others refused to take risks, that's a word, that's important word too, risks.

我们在其他人不愿承担风险的地方铺设管道，风险这个词也很重要。

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Now in much of Good Profit, you sound like a very calm serene rational processes guy,

从《做大利润》书中许多地方看，你像是一个非常冷静、理性的人，

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which you'd expect from a man who has three degrees in engineering

具有获得三个工程学学位的人的气质。

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Yeah, but here's a glimpse at somebody who thinks risk is important,

是的，说到这，有人认为风险很重要，

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and so what I'm trying to get at here is: what is your attitude toward risk?

我想说的是：你对风险的态度是什么？

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What is the company's attitude toward risk?

公司对风险的态度是什么？

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To what extent do we owe this amazing growth of your company to intelligent rational processes,

贵公司所取得的惊人增长在多大程度上应归功于明智的理性过程，

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and to what extent do we owe it to managers following your lead to take risks?

在多大程度上又应归功于在你领导下的敢于承担风险的管理人员？

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Are you a good gambler, well I mean, you see what I'm getting at.

你是个好赌徒吗？我的意思是，你明白我的意思。

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You see what I'm getting at.

你明白我的意思。

Charles Koch：

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But no, but that this this MBM approach is not, (market-based management), just one piece and that'll work by itself

但是，但是这种MBM方法（基于市场的管理），无法单独起作用

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It's an integrated philosophy, and one each of the five dimensions needs to reinforce each other,

它是一种集成哲学思想，五个维度中的每一个维度都需要互相加强，

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and for example, we do not take risks with safety or the environment,

例如，我们在安全或环境方面不会冒险，

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I mean safety is job one, and if there's something not working properly at a unit, we say shut it down.

我的意思是安全是第一位，如果公司里有什么装置不能正常工作，我们就关掉它。

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For example, at Georgia-Pacific when we bought it,

例如，当我们收购乔治亚太平洋公司的时候，

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they had， their vision was to be the low-cost operator of southern pine

他们有，他们的愿景是低成本用南方松造纸。

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and so the employees really bought into that, so if a machine, the paper machine

公司的员工真的接受了这种观念，如果一台机器，比如造纸机

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I don't know if you've ever seen a paper machine here, they're huge and complicated, very dangerous.

我不知道你们是否见过造纸机，它们又大又复杂，非常危险。

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The employees would tend to try to fix the machine while it’s operating, and so they had a big accident rate.

员工往往会在机器还在运行的情况下修理机器，因此他们的事故发生率很高。

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And we said no, the rule Safety's first, saving people's lives, protecting their health is first.

而我们说，不，安全规则第一，保护人们的生命安全、健康是最重要的事情。

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If the machine is, you'd never work on it until it shut down. This took years to get that through.

如果机器坏了，你们千万不要在开机的状态下修理它。这个习惯花了好几年的时间才彻底改掉。

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We had to fire managers, fire employees who were violating this.

我们不得不解雇违反这一规定的管理者和员工。

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But that's how ingrained some of these mental models or ideas are, but we finally changed that.

这种心理或思想是根深蒂固的，但我们最终改变了这一点。

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Every company we bought, the first thing we do is to improve safety and then improve the environmental practices.

我们每收购一家公司时，首先会提高安全性，然后再改进环保措施。

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So those are first, so we don't take risks there.

那些是最重要的事情，我们不会冒险。

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Financial risks, we evaluate okay, what's the probability of success, what's the downside?

金融风险，我们评估成功的可能性有多少，有什么不利之处？

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And then how does that compare to the upside?

与其好处相比如何？

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And part of the upside is not just the return on that investment, but will it build us new capability, that'll be a new platform for growth.

其好处不仅仅是投资得到的回报，而是它将为我们培养新的能力，这将是一个新的增长平台。

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And when we say we took more risks than others.

当我们说，我们比别人承担了更多的风险时,

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First of all, we, what we try to do in crude oil gathering is understand, it was mainly buying oil and transporting the oil of independent explorers and producers,

首先，在原油收集方面，我们尽量去理解，我们主要购买并运输独立勘探者和生产者的石油，

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So we we've got people to get to know each one,

我们要了解每一个人，

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What do you value? What do you want? And then we'd give them may be services,

了解他们最看中什么，他们想要什么，然后我们再为他们提供服务，

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but we want to move our oil every day,

但是我们每天都要运输石油，

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we won't want any risk on your being late, on your payments or not paying, it may be other things whatever it was.