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If in 1961 you had invested $1000 in this man's company, today you would be sitting on five million.

如果你1961年投资1000美元到这个人的公司，那么你现在就有五百万了。

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Uncommon Knowledge, one of the signal figures in American business history Charles Koch.

《非同寻常的知识》采访了美国商业史上的一位重要人物--查尔斯·科赫。

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Uncommon Knowledge now

这里是《非同寻常的知识》。

Peter Robinson：

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Welcome to Uncommon Knowledge, I'm Peter Robinson.

欢迎大家收看《非同寻常的知识》，我是彼得·罗宾逊。

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Born and raised in Wichita Kansas, Charles Koch studied at MIT, worked for a few years back east,

查尔斯·科赫出生于堪萨斯州威奇塔，在麻省理工学院读过书，在东部工作了几年，

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then returned to Wichita to join his father's business then a medium-sized oil company in 1961.

后来回到威奇塔管理他父亲的公司，1961年那个公司还是一家中型的石油公司。

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In 1966 he became president of the business which he renamed Koch Industries in honor of his father.

1966年，他成为该公司的总裁，他把公司改名为科氏工业集团，以纪念他的父亲。

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In the half a century since, Koch Industries has grown so dramatically that it now represents the second largest privately held company in the United States.

半个世纪以来，科氏工业集团迅速发展，现已成为美国第二大私营公司。

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Its products run from oil to polymers, to paper products, to pipelines, to fiber optics.

其产品涵盖石油、聚合物、纸制品、管道、纤维光学产品。

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And it employs almost a hundred thousand people, 60,000 of them here in this country,

它在全球雇佣了近十万名员工，其中有6万人在这个国家，

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worth 21 million dollars in 1961, Koch Industries, of which Mr. Koch remains Chairman and CEO, is now worth 100 billion dollars,

1961年，科氏工业集团的市值为2100万美元，科赫先生一直担任董事长兼首席执行官，现在集团的市值为1000亿美元，

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with his brother David, Charles Koch is active in politics funding think tanks and campaigns.

查尔斯·科赫与他的兄弟戴维·科赫一起积极资助政治、智囊团和活动。

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Mr. Koch is also the author of a number of books including most recently Good Profit.

科赫先生还著有几本书，其中包括最近出版的《做大利润》。

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Charles Koch, welcome

欢迎查尔斯·科赫  

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Actually I ordinarily say welcome when we're in our studio, but you were kind enough to invite us into your home.

事实上，我通常会在我们工作室说欢迎，但是因为你盛情邀请我们来到你家。

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So thank you for welcoming us here to your home in Indian Wells, California.

谢谢你邀请我们来到你加利福尼亚印第安韦尔斯的家。

Charles Koch：

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Well thanks for having me on your program

谢谢你邀请我参加你们的节目。

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I've watched it a number of times, and I don't deserve to be on it, given the quality of the others

我经常看这个节目，看到其他人的成就，我觉得我还没有资格参加这个节目。

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I take that as a high compliment, and I thank you for it.

你们的邀请让我受宠若惊，谢谢你们。

Peter Robinson：

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All right, the opening gambit is modesty, then we'll go from Good Profit.

好的，开场白非常谦虚，我们首先开始讨论《做大利润》。

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Good Profit is creating, this is the way you define your title,

《做大利润》是创造，你就是用这种方式定义书名，

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Good Profit is creating superior value for our customers while consuming fewer resources and always acting lawfully and with integrity.

《做大利润》是指为我们的客户创造更高的价值，而消耗更少的资源，并且始终以合法和诚信行事。

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Now Charles, your common understanding of profit is money as money, what has integrity got to do with it?

查尔斯，你对利润的一般理解是：金钱就是金钱，诚信与它有什么关系呢？

Charles Koch：

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Well it has to do with this. If you want to make a quick buck, you can do it a lot of different ways.

嗯 诚信与这个有关。如果你想赚一笔钱，你可以使用很多不同的方法。

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You can cheat somebody, you can misrepresent something,

你可以欺骗别人，你可以虚假宣传，

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you can go manipulate the political system to get an advantage.

你可以操纵政治系统以获得优势。

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But if you want to, if you want to be successful over a long period of time,

但是如果你想，如果你想取得长期的成功，

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I believe you need to be to focus, first of all, on creating value for others

我认为你首先应该集中精力为他人创造价值。

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and that sounds, oh that's I've heard from people, well that's na?ve, that's utopian.

哦，我听见有人说，太天真了，那是乌托邦。

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No, it isn't, because why will the customers want to pay you anything over a long period unless you're creating value for them.

不，不是这样的，因为除非你为他们创造价值，否则顾客为什么要长期付钱给你呢？

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Why would your employees want to work for you if they didn't have any alternative?

如果你的员工没有其他选择，他们为什么想为你工作呢？

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Why do they want to give their best efforts? Why do they want to get excited?

他们为什么要竭尽全力工作？他们为什么为工作充满激情？

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Why would they wake up at night with ideas?

为什么他们半夜醒来还在思考好主意?

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If you're in a community, a plan in a community, unless you're creating value for that community,

如果你在社区里，社区的计划，除非你为社区创造价值，

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why would the community want you there if you're polluting and hurting people and not contributing anything to the community?

如果你在污染、伤害人们，不为社区贡献任何东西，他们为什么会要选择你呢？  

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So long-term success starts with being dedicated to creating value for others.

因此，为了取得长期的成功，首先要致力于为他人创造价值。

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It's, it's not altruism, it's, my whole philosophy is to have a system of mutual benefit where both parties gain, a society is based on win-win.

这不是利他主义，这是，我的整个哲学理念是：形成一种互利的制度，双方都能受益，社会是基于共赢。

Peter Robinson：

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All right, one of the aspects of Good Profit is so interesting to me, is that you provide something of an intellectual history,

好的，《做大利润》在我看来很有意思，其中一个原因是：你提供了一段思想史，

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that makes it sound pompous, it's a very readable enjoyable book,

这听起来有点夸张，这是一本可读性强、非常有趣的书，

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but that you're talking about your own intellectual journey,

但是你说的是你自己的思想之旅，

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young man in Wichita, you go off to MIT, you begin reading, you try to figure life out,

一个威奇塔的年轻人，你去麻省理工学院读书，你开始阅读，你开始寻找生命的意义，

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and as you're reading at MIT for a few years, and you're working back east

在麻省理工学院读了几年书，然后回东部工作。

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I'm going to quote you now, the conclusions you've reached.

我现在要引用你的话，引用你得出的结论。

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The more books I read, the more passionately I embrace the truth that

读的书越多，就会越热烈地拥抱真理：

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widespread human well-being demands property rights, allows people to speak freely, refrains from interference and private parties agreements and exchanges, and allows human action that is markets, allows human action to guide prices, close quote

普遍的人类福祉需要财产权利，允许人们自由发言，避免干扰私人聚会、协议、交流，允许人类的市场行动，允许人类行动指导价格，引用完毕

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So we've got the young man from Wichita embracing the Scotsman, Adam Smith and the Austrian economist Friedrich Hayek and Ludwig von Mises.

我们看到来自威奇塔的年轻人，他接受苏格兰人亚当·史密斯，奥地利经济学家弗里德里希·哈耶克和路德维希·冯·米塞斯的思想。

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You find your way to classical liberalism, how did that happen?

你找到了通向古典自由主义的道路，你是怎么找到的？