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[参考文献] TTT 第一课 >> Good Profit 柯赫采访 Part I（中英双语文字稿） > 第五节

Peter Robinson：

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Let me interrupt there because this gets us to what is the heart of much of Good Profit.

让我打断一下，因为这让我们看到《做大利润》的核心内容。

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You spend as I say, almost half a century, now working on this experiment of Koch Industries,

你花了近半个世纪的时间研究科氏工业集团，

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and you've distilled your management technique into what you call market-based management, which has five basic components.

你把你们的管理技术提炼成市场化管理，它有五个基本组成部分。

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Let's take a couple of those, you just touched on one, knowledge, I'm quoting you again.

让我们举几个例子，你刚才提到一个--知识，我将再次引用你的话。

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Knowledge process is not only permissible for employees at Koch to challenge their bosses if they think they have a better answer,

知识处理不仅允许科氏的员工挑战他们的老板，只要他们认为他们有更好的答案，

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but they have an obligation to do so.

而且他们有义务这样做。

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Absolutely! Close quote.

当然! 引用完毕。

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Now in practice, I just said in the introduction, Koch Industries is now nine different freestanding units,

在实践中，我在开场的时候说过，科氏工业集团现在有九个不同的独立单位，

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a hundred thousand employees around the world, only a little more than half 60,000 in this country.

十万名员工遍布全球，大约6万名员工在这个国家。

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How do you defuse this? I mean here's, you could just say, well this is very high so high sounding,

你是如何提炼这个的？我的意思是，你可以说，可以夸夸其谈，

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that Mr. Koch when he was a young man developed this idea of that we needed challenged culture in our company, terrific.

科赫先生年轻时就提出了这个思想--我们的公司需要质疑文化，太棒了。

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But now we have a big company, processes apply the usual bureaucrat.

但现在我们的公司很大，流程适用通常的官僚机构，

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How do you resist that, how do you actually infuse genuine challenge culture across an entity as large as this?

你是如何抗拒这一点的，你是如何在这样庞大的实体中注入真正的质疑文化的呢？

Charles Koch：

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Well I mean it starts with values, and that's our, the five dimensions are vision, virtue and talents, knowledge process, as you mentioned decision rights and senates.

我的意思是，从价值观开始，这就是我们，五个维度分别是视觉、美德、才华，知识处理，正如你所提到的，决策权和评议会。

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And they're all based, as you say, from my studies on how people can best live and work together, how societies can organize himself to maximize well-being for everybody, not just for a selected few.

正如你们所说，它们都是基于我的一些研究：人们如何最好地生活和工作，如何组织社会为所有人创造最大的福祉，而不仅仅是选定的少数人。

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So the starting point is having these values what we call our 10 guiding principles, having them be who we are as a company.

所以首先要拥有这些价值观，我们称之为我们的10个指导原则，用它们支撑我们的公司。

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Many companies have lists of principles, but in many case and that's endeavor stick them in the drawer and that's the end of it.

许多公司都设立了一些原则，但在许多情况下，都把它们放在抽屉里，置之不理。

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Our principles are who we are as a company, they guide everything we do,

我们的原则是：我们是一个公司，原则指导我们做每一件事，

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they determine who we hire, who we retain, who we promote,

它们决定我们雇用谁，我们留住谁，我们晋升谁，

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how you as employee will be rewarded, everything.

员工将得到什么样的回报，等等。

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And the key part of those values is, a key part of those principles is challenge.

质疑是这些价值观的关键部分，是这些原则的一个关键部分。

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You've got to challenge, and you've got to be skeptical,

你们必须质疑，你们必须持怀疑态度，

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and you've got to be committed to getting long-term results, not just results this quarter, but we evaluate and reward people on long-term results.

你们必须致力于获得长期的结果，而不仅仅是本季度的结果，但是我们根据长期结果评估并奖励员工。

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and it's, I'm not saying it's easy or we're perfect, we're a long way from perfect in any of these, we fight it every day,

而且，我并不是说这很容易，或者我们已经很完美了，我们在这些方面离完美还有很长的距离，我们每天都在改进，

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but one of the most difficult things we have when we acquire a company is building in this challenged culture,

但是，每当我们收购一家公司时，我们遇到的最困难的事情之一就是如何将这种质疑的文化植入新公司，

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because in so many companies, if you challenge your boss, in particular, if you're pushy about it, that can affect your career in a negative way.

因为在很多公司里，如果你质疑你的老板，特别是如果你很冲动，就会给你的事业带来消极的影响。

Peter Robinson：

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Sure.

当然。

Charles Koch：

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and we're the opposite if you never challenge that's gonna affect your career in a negative way,

而我们正好相反，如果你从不质疑，这将会对你的事业产生负面影响，

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if you challenge not to prove you're a smarty pants or show up somebody, but because you have an idea on how we can improve, how we can do better, how the hell your boss is decision is a mistake,

如果你质疑领导，不是自作聪明或者为了炫耀，而是因为你确实有想法可以帮助我们改进，帮助我们做得更好，证明你老板的决定错了，

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and if you do that, whether you're right or wrong, you're gonna be celebrated, and you're gonna be rewarded for that, particularly obviously if it gets improved results.

如果你这样做了，不管你是对是错，你都会得到嘉奖，你将得到回报，尤其在结果得到了改善的时候。

Peter Robinson：

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Another of the five tenets of market-based management, virtue and talents, and again I'm quoting from Good Profit.

美德和才能也是基于市场的管理的五大原则之一，我再次引用《做大利润》的原文。

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We can hire all the brightest MBAs in the world, and if they don't have the right values, we will fail.

我们可以在全世界雇佣最聪明的MBA毕业生，但是如果他们没有正确的价值观，我们也会失败。

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We hire based on values first then talent.

我们招聘时，把价值观放在才能之上。

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That's breathtaking, it's breathtaking, well first of all, just as a practical matter, how do you screen for values?

这太激动人心了，太激动人心了，首先，作为一个实际的问题，你们如何筛查价值观？

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How do you screen for values legally? You're not allowed to ask questions about people's religion huh, how do you do that?

你们如何合法地筛查价值观？你们不可以问人们关于宗教信仰的问题，嗯，你们是如何做到的？

Charles Koch：

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I don't think we're based on, well we're not concerned about religion.

我不认为我们基于，我们不在乎宗教信仰。

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We're concerned about: do you have integrity? Do you have the courage to live by the values when they're tough?

我们关心的是：你诚信吗？你有勇气在艰难的时候坚守价值观吗？

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This is why Aristotle called courage the most important of all the virtues, because if you don't have it, you won't be able to exercise the other virtues when they're needed most.

这就是为什么亚里士多德认为勇气在所有美德中最重要，因为如果你没有勇气，你就不能在最需要的时候行使其他美德。

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So courage, compliance, value creation, being dedicated to creating real value for our customers, for society, for the company,

因此，勇气、承诺、价值创造，致力于为我们的客户、社会、公司创造真正的价值，

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knowledge, challenge, treating others with dignity and respect, and then trying to have a job that's fulfilling to you,

知识、挑战、尊重他人，然后努力找到一份对你来说有意义的工作，

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because we find, and this isn't just altruism, this is the philosophy of mutual benefit.

因为我们发现，这不只是利他主义，这也是互惠互利的哲学。

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If an employee has a fulfilling job, they're going to be more creative and more productive, and it makes their lives better.