Peter Robinson：

00:28:58,236 --> 00:28:59,988

Okay, let's just take a moment to explain that.

好吧，让我们花点时间来解释一下。

00:29:00,431 --> 00:29:06,157

So when you say you're raising money, you and your brother put in substantial resources yourselves,

当你说你筹集资金时，你和你的兄弟自己投入了大量的资源，

00:29:06,542 --> 00:29:11,773

but you've at this stage, you've put together a network of something like 300 or so like-minded.

但在这个阶段，你已经建立了300人左右的人脉网，

Charles Koch：

00:29:12,172 --> 00:29:13,589

Four to five hundred,

四百至五百人，

Peter Robinson：

00:29:14,030 --> 00:29:18,861

Four to five hundred people, you have your conference each year, there's a discussion every year, two year.

每年有四百至五百人参加你的会议，每年有一次讨论会，是两年一次。

00:29:19,495 --> 00:29:24,805

Okay I just wanted to make clear that when you say raise money, you aren't raising money, as well as putting in.

好吧，我只是想澄清，当你说筹集资金时，你不仅是在筹集资金，也在投入资金。

Charles Koch：

00:29:25,230 --> 00:29:32,062

Yeah, the great majority of what we invest or help invest is coming from others.

是的，我们投入，也帮助别人投入。但绝大部分资金是来自别人的。

Peter Robinson：

00:29:32,517 --> 00:29:44,485

Okay, so I want to come to the current your disappointment in the primaries and so forth in a moment, but to look at that quotation I gave you the other way around

好吧，我想现在就来谈谈你们在初选中的失望等等，但是先看看我引用的那句话。

00:29:44,958 --> 00:29:52,429

The New York Times piece that I quoted, says it's in some way, it's illegitimate for wealthy people to get in

我引用的纽约时报文章说，从某种意义上说，富人加入是不合法的。

00:29:52,887 --> 00:29:56,509

There's another way that that might be looked at, and it's just the other way around,

还有另一种方法可以看，它只是另一种方式，

00:29:56,958 --> 00:30:13,701

and the way it might run is something like this, that people who have benefited from the free market system have some responsibility to defend what they have experience of it,

它可能是这样运作的，那些从自由市场体系中获益的人有责任捍卫他们体验的东西，

00:30:14,008 --> 00:30:17,679

they can see its shortcomings, corporate welfare would be one in your case

他们可以看到它的缺点，企业福利将是你的情况之一。

00:30:18,046 --> 00:30:28,958

but people that people in your position have something of responsibility, and the surprise is not that Charles and David Koch have put together several hundred friends and like-minded people,

但是像你这样的高管具有责任感，查尔斯·科赫与戴维·科赫把几百个朋友和志同道合的人聚集在一起，这一点也不惊讶，

00:30:29,285 --> 00:30:37,444

What surprise is that there aren't more people you can think, Charles Koch, David Koch, Rupert Murdoch Clifford Ness Shawn Feel,

令人惊讶的是，你能想到的人没有几个：查尔斯·科赫、戴维·科赫、鲁伯特·默多克、利福德·尼斯和肖恩，

00:30:37,855 --> 00:30:50,719

you don't have to go very much beyond the fingers of two hands to think of prominent business leaders who take seriously American politics and are willing to speak under their own name, why is that?

你不必伸出双手来细数认真对待美国政治并愿意以自己的名义发言的商界领袖，这是为什么呢？

Charles Koch：

00:30:51,528 --> 00:31:07,702

Well, I think the well first of all I feel a more just as you say I feel moral obligation to do this and I feel I have talked about it, I have a calling to do this.

嗯，我认为，首先，我感觉更像你说的那样，我在道义上有责任去做这件事，我觉得我已经讨论过这个话题，我受到“召唤”去做这件事。

00:31:08,502 --> 00:31:16,798

Unfortunately the other parts have been effective, like I said, when I started in this, I started an education,

不幸的是，其他的部分都是有效的，就像我说的，当我开始学习的时候，我开始了一段教育，

00:31:17,289 --> 00:31:21,000

because I wanted as I said, other people, these ideas were transforming my life,

因为我想，正如我所说，其他人，这些想法正在改变我的生活，

00:31:22,473 --> 00:31:29,103

and I wanted to give as many other people the idea that the opportunity to transform their lives,

我想给许多其他人这样一个想法：改变他们生活的机会，

00:31:29,425 --> 00:31:40,223

and then I could see that many of the policies were holding people back from fully applying these ideas to make their lives better,

然后，我发现许多政策阻碍人们充分利用这些想法，阻碍他们让生活变得更美好，

00:31:40,625 --> 00:32:01,751

so we started working on moving, trying to move America towards policies that will enable everybody to practice these as opposed to where I saw as going to a system of control, dependency, cronyism and poverty，

所以我们开始研究，试图改变美国的政策，让每个人都能够对抗控制系统、依赖、任人唯亲和贫困，

00:32:02,481 --> 00:32:13,249

that isn't creating this system of mutual benefit and general well-being, but a system that's pitting individuals and groups against each other,

（现在）不是建立互惠互利和普遍福利的制度，而是一种使个人和团体相互对立的制度，

00:32:13,949 --> 00:32:22,203

and and then we  got into electoral politics, because I was very disappointed in what the Bush 43 administration was doing.

然后我们研究了选举政治，因为我对美国第43任总统布什所做的事情感到非常失望。

00:32:22,515 --> 00:32:34,754

They grew the government much more than Clinton and even on the regulatory, they're supposedly deregulated the regulations that they had it were more than double what it was under Clinton.

他执政期的政府规模远远大于克林顿的，甚至在监管上，据推测，他们解除监管的法规是克林顿任职期间的两倍多。

00:32:35,165 --> 00:32:43,227

And so we got started in the political side in that administration to oppose what they were doing.

因此，我们从政府的政治立场开始反对他们所做的事情。

00:32:43,597 --> 00:32:47,171

It was a little hard, because most business people are Republicans.

这有点困难，因为大多数商界人士都是共和党人。

00:32:47,598 --> 00:32:49,737

I didn't want to oppose a republic.

我不想反对共和党人。

Peter Robinson：

00:32:50,108 --> 00:32:56,059

Let it be noted that the people who got you so ticked off, you entered political, became politically active or Republicans, yeah not Democrat.

请注意，那些让你如此不安的人进入政界，成为政治活跃分子或共和党人，不是民主党人。

Charles Koch：

00:32:56,463 --> 00:33:05,146

Well I still feel that way and the whole American population evidently feels that way, that's why they're going against the Republican politician,

嗯，我还是认为所有美国人显然都有这种感觉，这就是他们反对共和党政客的原因，

Peter Robinson：

00:33:05,811 --> 00:33:08,371

so which brings us to the current primary season.

因此我们将讨论当前的初选。

00:33:08,811 --> 00:33:14,258

Here's another question I have to ask, we've talked about business leaders who are willing to do something,

我还有一个问题要问，我们已经讨论过愿意做些事情的商业领袖，

00:33:14,674 --> 00:33:19,061

and there's one and his name is Donald Trump, what do you make of him?

还有一个人，他的名字叫唐纳德·特朗普，你觉得他怎么样？

00:33:19,469 --> 00:33:31,868

Well, I don't like to comment about individuals, because we're not into ad hominem attacks, but I can say this I disagree with a lot of its policies,

好吧，我不想评论别人，因为我们对广告人身攻击不感兴趣，但我可以说我不同意他的许多政策，

00:33:32,324 --> 00:33:36,691

as you can tell from what I how I've been articulating what we stand for,

你可以从我身上看出我是如何表达我们的立场的，

00:33:37,833 --> 00:33:46,098

and I said this publicly before I don't believe in protectionism, I don't believe in corporate welfare, I don't believe that

在我不相信贸易保护主义之前，我曾公开声明，我不相信企业福利，我不相信。

00:33:46,754 --> 00:33:53,620

I believe in free speech, I don't believe in tacking personally attacking people who disagree with you.

我相信言论自由，我不相信对不同意你的观点的人给予个人攻击。

00:33:53,997 --> 00:34:01,654

You see I don't do that, I praise Bernie Sanders, he's attacking us, I praised him publicly and we made a video praise him,

你看，我不这么做，我称赞了伯尼·桑德斯，他攻击我们时，我当众表扬了他，我们拍了一个视频表扬他，

00:34:01,997 --> 00:34:12,133

and it was interesting then he already got into in one of their debates into a big conflict over are supposedly supporting British.

有趣的是，他已经参加了一场大辩论，据说他们支持英国。

00:34:12,533 --> 00:34:25,186

It was wonderful,

真是太好了，

Peter Robinson：

but to be clear you support, you agree with his diagnosis of what's wrong with the country, you think he's completely wrong, and the government to solve.

但是要清楚你支持、同意他对这个国家的问题的诊断，你认为他完全错了，政府也要解决。

Charles Koch：

00:34:25,647 --> 00:34:33,685

More go down this path further, which is destroying people's lives and making their country worse.

更多的人沿着这条路走下去，这破坏了人们的生活，使他们的国家变得更糟。