Peter Robinson：

00:16:13,047 --> 00:16:17,049

Charles, half a century of growth, where did all the capital come from?

查尔斯，经历了半个世纪的增长，你们公司的资本来自哪里？

00:16:17,467 --> 00:16:23,394

You are still a privately held company, you did not buckle under at any point, and go to the public markets,

你们仍然是一家私人控股公司，在任何时候都不受约束，参与公共市场，

Charles Koch：

00:16:23,896 --> 00:16:32,914

yeah I don't think we would have been able to do, I mean, first of all, who's this kid that has all these crazy theories and just going to use our company as a laboratory.

是的，我本以为我们无法做到，我的意思是，首先，这个满脑子疯狂理论的小孩是谁？他会把我们公司当作实验室。

00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:38,954

I mean I'd have been fired long ago, because we had lots of myth starts,

我的意思是我可能很久以前就被炒鱿鱼了，因为我们有很多神秘的创业故事，

Peter Robinson：

00:16:39,477 --> 00:16:42,345

and you had one choice on it, or lose your job

你有一个选择，或者失去你的工作

Charles Koch：

00:16:43,011 --> 00:16:49,424

that was it, that was it, and so staying private, so the way we did it,

就是这样，就是这样，所以保持私有，所以我们这样做，

00:16:49,874 --> 00:16:55,636

and fortunately we have a small number of shareholders, so we can reinvest 90% of our profits in the business,

幸运的是，我们的股东很少，所以我们可以再投资90%的利润的到该投的业务中，

00:16:56,497 --> 00:17:05,184

and so that gave us the capital to continue to do that, and still pay out enough our stockholders all the money they needed,

这就给了我们继续做这件事的资本，并且仍然能够向我们的股东支付他们所需要的全部资金，

00:17:05,619 --> 00:17:11,264

and they had enough confidence in it-- that we could get a higher return on their capital

他们有足够的信心--我们可以获得更高的资本回报率。

00:17:11,696 --> 00:17:14,002

then if we paid it out in dividends that they could get well.

然后，如果我们用股息支付，他们就会好起来。

Peter Robinson：

00:17:15,397 --> 00:17:21,458

Last question about this 50 years of growth, you're a private company, not a public company,

关于50年增长的最后一个问题，你们是一家私人公司，而不是一家上市公司，

00:17:21,876 --> 00:17:34,231

but for you surely are aware of this concept of a conglomerate discount, where the market values conglomerates, public conglomerates at less than the sum of their parts.

但是你们肯定知道集团折扣这一概念，即公共企业集团的整体市场价值要小于其部分之和。

00:17:34,563 --> 00:17:51,497

And the thinking, very common thinking is that a big diversified company such as Koch, for example, just can't manage as effectively as a company that focuses on one tight industry, one tight grouping of products.

这种想法，非常普遍的想法是，像科氏工业集团这样的大型多元化公司，不可能像一家专注于一个行业、一类产品的公司那样有效地进行管理。

00:17:52,763 --> 00:17:55,360

Jeff Immelt at GE just got rid of Jeff.

通用电气的杰夫·伊梅尔特刚刚退位。

00:17:55,763 --> 00:18:01,633

Between Jack Welch and Jeff Immelt, you get a narrowing of GE’s products, the markets turn in and so forth.

在杰克·韦尔奇和杰夫·伊梅尔特两人的管理期间，通用电气的产品范围变窄了，市场转向，等等。

00:18:02,203 --> 00:18:11,522

So how do you, you've got these nine industry groups, you're a stonemason, and that stone, that beautiful stone edifice that you've built is a conglomerate,

所以你是如何…你有这九个产业群，你是一个石匠，你构筑的美丽大厦是多元化集团，

00:18:11,794 --> 00:18:29,335

you've got a just an enormous different number of products and industries that you're in. How do you beat that tendency for a diffusion of management energy, for a lack of focus, how do you beat the conglomerate discount?

你拥有数量巨大的不同产品，处于各个行业。你如何克服管理力量分散的趋势，由于缺乏重点，你是如何克服了多元化企业折让？

Charles Koch：

00:18:29,691 --> 00:18:46,063

So to speak, let's say, we don't look at every business we've gone into was based on our having the capability to improve it, and they're having capabilities to open new opportunities for it.

这样说吧，我们并没有看我们所从事的每一项业务都是因为我们有能力改进它，并且有能力为它打开新的机遇。

00:18:46,564 --> 00:18:53,969

So one hand washes the other here, and all of these businesses are interrelated and work with each other.

因此，有来有往，互相利用，所有这些企业是相互关联的，并相互合作。

00:18:54,419 --> 00:19:05,296

And we have, we try not to have big central bureaucracy, but what we have is a few specialists in each field.

我们有，我们尽量不设置大的中央官僚机构，但是我们在每个行业都有几个专家。

00:19:05,724 --> 00:19:12,522

For example, in innovation, we put on twice a year innovation seminars,

例如，在创新方面，我们每年举办两次创新研讨会。

00:19:13,139 --> 00:19:24,497

So all the people involved in product or process innovation get together and share ideas on innovation and driving radical innovation, driving creative destruction,

所有参与产品或流程创新的人聚集在一起，分享创新和推动激进创新的想法，推动创造性的颠覆，

00:19:24,787 --> 00:19:32,104

and we bring in speakers and they share knowledge and then they build a community-- This is the Republic of science.

同时我们邀请演讲者，他们分享知识，然后建立一个社区—即科学共和国。

00:19:32,690 --> 00:19:40,113

so then when they have a question on this, or that they know who to call and we do the same thing on operations excellence.

所以当他们在这方面遇到问题时，或者他们知道应该打电话给谁，我们都用最好的方式操作。

00:19:40,929 --> 00:19:52,225

So like most of our businesses are chemical process industries, so they have similar problems, so they share knowledge from that so each one isn't reinventing the wheel.

因此，就像我们大多数的企业都属于化学加工企业，他们也有类似的问题，所以他们分享知识，就不用每个人都去重复发明了。

Peter Robinson：

00:19:52,611 --> 00:19:57,311

So your core competence, you do have a core competency, you do have a focus, and it's the Republic of Koch.

所以，你们的核心竞争力，你们有一个核心竞争力，有一个焦点，那就是科氏共和国。

00:19:58,067 --> 00:20:03,058

It's the Internet, it's a set of ideas, it's this and management values and the values

它像是互联网，它是一套想法，是管理价值观和价值观。

Charles Koch：

00:20:03,579 --> 00:20:10,289

Values come first, and then particular technologies and techniques come later.

价值观最重要，其次是特定的技术。

00:20:10,947 --> 00:20:17,090

But the techniques and the procedures aren't value unless people understand the underlying principles

但是，除非人们了解基本原理，否则这些技术和程序就没有价值。

00:20:17,499 --> 00:20:23,473

For example, incentives, they say how do you do incentives?

例如，奖励，他们说：“你是如何奖励的？”

00:20:23,899 --> 00:20:34,386

Well, we try to evaluate each year how much each employee has contributed to increasing the long-term value of Koch Industries, not just this year's earnings.

好吧，我们试着每年评估每个员工对提高科氏工业集团的长期价值做出了多少贡献，而不仅仅是对当年的收入做出的贡献。

00:20:35,059 --> 00:20:42,186

Have you helped improve the culture? Have you built additional capabilities that don't haven't paid off this year?

你帮助提高企业文化了吗？你是否培养了今年还没有回报的额外能力？

00:20:43,304 --> 00:20:46,465

But we are promising for the future, we look at that whole thing,

但我们对未来充满希望，我们关注全局，

00:20:47,055 --> 00:20:56,337

So our incentives aren't based on a formula, they're based on some objective measures, but largely they're subjective.

所以我们的激励不是基于一个公式，而是基于一些客观的措施，但大部分都是主观的措施。

00:20:56,848 --> 00:21:09,636

And we spend tremendous amount of time on this, and we're not perfect, we not measure with a micrometer and then cut with an axe, because you can't really know,

我们在这上面花了大量的时间，我们不是完美的，我们不是用千分尺测量、再用斧头砍，因为你真的无法知道，

00:21:10,089 --> 00:21:17,778

but we do it well enough that our people know that we're using our best efforts to reward them for the value they're creating,

但是我们做得很好，我们的员工知道我们正在尽最大努力来奖励他们创造的价值，

00:21:18,195 --> 00:21:21,442

and not just for their business, but for the overall.

而不仅仅是因为他们的业务，而且是为了全局。

00:21:21,999 --> 00:21:27,714

For example, if you had an idea, you're working in Flint Hills, are refining chemical.

例如，如果你有一个想法，你在弗林特丘陵工作，在精炼化学品。

00:21:28,316 --> 00:21:40,520

If you had an idea that helped Georgia-Pacific or helped INVISTA, well that's going to be, that's going to be in the evaluation and even if it didn't help them in that way we believe, it'll help them for the future.

如果你的主意帮助了乔治亚太平洋公司或英威达公司，那么这将，这将被写入评价，即使现在这个想法没有按我们期待的方式帮助到他们，将来也有助于他们。